Posted 2006-07-14 1:25 PM (#330) Subject: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 13
Location: Iowa
As I enter the market to buy a new or used 2006 or 2007 F350, the warning signs at the gas pump have me wondering WHERE I'd get diesel for a 2007!!! Every single pump I've been to in the midwest has a warning sticker that the low sulphur diesel will damage 2007 engines. What are 2007 diesel buyers supposed to do?
Posted 2006-07-14 1:54 PM (#332 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 2621
Originally written by dez on 2006-07-14 1:25 PM
As I enter the market to buy a new or used 2006 or 2007 F350, the warning signs at the gas pump have me wondering WHERE I'd get diesel for a 2007!!! Every single pump I've been to in the midwest has a warning sticker that the low sulphur diesel will damage 2007 engines. What are 2007 diesel buyers supposed to do?
The signs ARE confusing (at first).
I think they say "LOW sulphur" and the number is somewhere around 500 ppm.
BUT they say that it is illegal to use it in '07 and beyond model years that require "low sulphur fuel" - Crazy.
The problem is the overuse of superlatives, current diesel fuel is just "Not HIGH" in sulphur, but not as high as it was decades ago so they felt justified in calling it "Low". When the new(er) fuel comes available they will almost certainly have to call it "Super low", "Ultra low", "Extra Low", "Incredibly Low", to distinguish it from what is now "regular low".
I still see signs for "Unleaded Gasoline" - which is kinda redundant, we're going to need Un-MTBE signs next.
Don't worry, it will be everywhere as soon as the big rigs NEED it, but a lot of them are getting exemptions. You could probably find out who is carrying "Next Generation Low" from web sites such as Flying J.
"Next Generation Low" I like it, maybe I'll register/copyright/patent that.
Posted 2006-07-14 3:17 PM (#334 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 256
Location: rocky mount nc
Wonder what the ultra, super, incredible, X-TRA LOW sulfer diesel will run a gallon. You best get ready, it ain't going to be pretty. By 2010, all the big diesel pickups should have about 500+ hp and 1000 foot lbs. of torque. Takes more fuel to make those numbers. Don't know how I managed pulling a 24' steel stock trailer.........loaded........ with a 1978 K-20 Chevy 4x4 turbo 400 auto with a 350 cid 185hp gasser, but I did just that for the better part of 276,000 miles. And I don't remember anything about any SULFER!
Posted 2006-07-14 4:00 PM (#336 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 269
Location: Lucas, TX
I'm alittle slow on this kind of stuff. So will I be able to use any diesel, new kind or old kind in my 2004 chevy diesel? I read the link, and it still wasn't clear to me.
Posted 2006-07-15 1:36 AM (#338 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 30
Location: Denver CO
OK I just noticed the thread. So I'm slow, but I'm cute. All service stations are supposed to switch to low sulfur diesel this year. The new emission law goes into effect in January 2007. It sounds like GM and Ford will have their new diesel engines for low sulfur fuel in January, so they may be called 2008 models. Not sure about Dodge, their low sulfur diesel may be out this fall, we'll see what the new Cummins 6.7L is equipped for maybe in Oct. I'll be driving the new 2007 GM trucks next month. As soon as I'm allowed to announce the changes, you'll see it here.
Posted 2006-07-15 8:32 AM (#339 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 1919
Originally written by MrTruck on 2006-07-15 1:36 AM
OK I just noticed the thread. So I'm slow, but I'm cute. All service stations are supposed to switch to low sulfur diesel this year. The new emission law goes into effect in January 2007. It sounds like GM and Ford will have their new diesel engines for low sulfur fuel in January, so they may be called 2008 models. Not sure about Dodge, their low sulfur diesel may be out this fall, we'll see what the new Cummins 6.7L is equipped for maybe in Oct. I'll be driving the new 2007 GM trucks next month. As soon as I'm allowed to announce the changes, you'll see it here.
Posted 2006-07-15 11:11 AM (#340 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 105
The low sulfur fuels I cannot see hurting any engine. The reason that they are going to to a lower sulfur content is just for pollution reasons. The sulfur when mixed and burnt in a engine produces sulfuric acid. I think that everyone has heard of acid rain. When you burn a fuel you get SOX, Sulfur oxides and NOX, Nitrogen oxides, they combine with water to form the acid. Yes the cost is probably going to be higher, more refining of the crude to remove the sulfur. One of the problems with the Alaska crude oil is high sulfur content. Refiners have to be set up to handle that type of crude. Mr Truck can probably tell us why the need for low sulfur in the trucks. Most likely I would guess like the converters when then placed them on cars and lead was removed from the engines.
On the bio fuels I am going to guess No. Low sulfur should be there already. Not something that you would want in a oil for food. Remember the smell of rotten eggs. That is a sulfur compound.
Posted 2006-07-15 4:52 PM (#341 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 2621
Originally written by huntseat on 2006-07-14 3:29 PM
Is biodiesel considered ultra-low?
I am hoping to start a biodiesel small-scale production once I get to OK.
No, it is no.
================================================
If you have difficulty parsing that answer.
No, it is not considered ultra-low
It IS "No" sulfur (or no sulphur).
S is in mineral diesel because of where it comes from (out of the ground) and it is hard to get the S out, progressively more expensive.
Bio diesel is made by converting the esters in oils/fats, which don't have original S in them.
re: Setting up and running a small scale plant.
I think the WORST part would be collection of waste oils and fats.
To get any sort of regular volume, say more than 15 gallons a week, you would need a number of restaurants to agree to let you take their waste oil, or perhaps PAY you to take it away. I can't see ME making kitchen door calls for part of the trash, but who knows ?
$3 a gallon today, still climbing, I probably have my price.
BTW, you also need to buy methanol in fairly large quantities, also Lye (or sulphuric acid). Better get all the reqd permits to buy and store those in your garage or shed. Dept H/L security might take an interest in people who suddenly start buying such chemicals in quantities larger than say a pint or a pound ?
Posted 2006-07-15 11:54 PM (#342 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 30
Location: Denver CO
I was at a press conference when Dodge introduced the diesel Jeep Liberty a couple of years ago. According to the Dodge engineers, lowering the Sulfur and parifin wax that is the lubricating property in #2 diesel, has a substitute that should not raise the price much. But just as they raised the price of gas when they had to take the lead out, in other words not add it (lowering the refinery cost) the low sulfur diesel will cost more even if it cost less to produce. One of those mysteries.
Posted 2006-07-16 5:03 AM (#343 - in reply to #330) Subject: RE: Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
Posts: 2621
Originally written by MrTruck on 2006-07-15 11:54 PM
I was at a press conference when Dodge introduced the diesel Jeep Liberty a couple of years ago. According to the Dodge engineers, lowering the Sulfur and parifin wax that is the lubricating property in #2 diesel, has a substitute that should not raise the price much. But just as they raised the price of gas when they had to take the lead out, in other words not add it (lowering the refinery cost) the low sulfur diesel will cost more even if it cost less to produce. One of those mysteries.
Waxes yes, S no.
Taking the S out of mineral diesel gets geometrically more expensive as the concentrations get lower.
Lubricity in our winter fuel is low due to low wax content, this has little/nothing to do with S.
There is some confusion about what good S does in diesel fuel, other than keeping the cost down by just allowing it to stay in (-:
BTW, info on these topics tends to be better at Bosch and CAT than at Ford, GM, Dmlr/Chryco, et al.
Help, Mr Truck!!!!! 2007 diesel warning sign at the pumps
