Posted 2005-05-27 6:41 PM (#1137) Subject: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
I could use some help figuring out how much space I need to have between my truck rail and the gooseneck of my trailer. I used to pull with a 1995 Ford Crew Cab 350 Powerstroke 2x4. I wanted a shorter truck and four wheel drive... so I recently sold the 95 and upgraded to a 1999 Ford 350 4x4 Powerstroke. The difference in the height of the bed is something I didn't think about before I purchased the 99. I pull a 2003 Kiefer Genesis 2 horse slant. I read in a previous forum there should be at least 6 inches of clearance between the rail and the gooseneck. After hooking up the trailer I measured 6 1/2 inches. It looks awfully close. I also realize that the trailer should be level or possibly have a slight incline when hooked to the truck. Currently, with the 6 1/2 there is a slight incline, but again, the rail looks far too close to the trailer. I am worried if I crank the trailer high enough to allow for bed rail clearance, I will put too much stress on the trailer axles. (which are 5300 lb axles) Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
Posted 2005-05-28 9:53 AM (#1138 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 105
Thats about the height that we have with our truck trailer, 2500HD 2 wheel drive and the trailer a 2001 Windshadow Trail-et. If you have looked at the older posts the clearance should be OK. The problems that you may hit the rails in uneven roads, i.e. going uphill in the truck and the trailer still going downhill while making a turn. Also if this is a short bed then you may need the hitch extender to set the ball back. Don't want to take out the back window while turning. Those are the things that I can think of, some others may have more thoughts on this.
Posted 2005-05-28 9:59 AM (#1139 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
Thank you for the info. The uneven pavement is my problem. To turn from the highway onto the road I live on, I must turn the truck downhill while the trailer is still up hill. If no one is coming from the other direction I can swing wider and sometimes get a straight shot onto our road. But, if I can't get the straight shot, it is another story. I live on a 3 mile stretch of gravel in between two paved roads. Both ways in, there is a drop off from pavement onto the gravel road. Sure wish I would have considered this before I bought my newer truck.
Posted 2005-05-29 7:46 PM (#1140 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 261
Location: CA
I did the exact same thing...old trailer, new truck. I always heard you needed a minimum of 7" clearance between truck rails and gooseneck overhang. I ended up lowering the truck with a kit through the dealer so it didn't void the warranty. That still didn't make the trailer ride level, so I recently had the trailer raised with 3" blocks between the frame and the axles. It's "almost" level now, but if I increased the size of the blocks I think the step-up would be too much for a couple of my horses. My clearance is now 8". It's one of those compromise things, not perfect, but pretty close and basicly OK....Kinda like my husband now that I think about it! LOL!
Posted 2005-05-29 8:41 PM (#1141 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
Lowering the truck is something I will check into. I hadn't thought of that. I am sure if I raise my trailer it will be too high for a horse to feel comfortable stepping into. I haven't quite got my hubby "there" yet.. Thanks for the ideas.
Posted 2005-05-30 8:38 AM (#1142 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 565
Location: Michigan
I have noticed the height clearance too with my 3/4ton Duramax short box and my Exiss GN and then when backing up and turning, the sudden, "OH S__T" the nose is so close to the back window. (My next truck will be a long bed!) The nose on my trailer is somewhat tapered so while it looks quite close, I don't think it will hit.
It is nerve wracking going over uneven ground and thinking the GN is going to get the tail gate.(Had that happen before with another truck and different trailer) The sewer hose holder that is mounted under the GN would be the first to go. In fact when I bought the trailer I noticed it was cracked and had to be replaced, now I know why. It is a bad spot for that to be so I am thinking of moving it.
Posted 2005-05-31 2:14 PM (#1143 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 119
Don't lengthen your coupler to get the clearance because that will put a slant on your trailer - bad for horses and bad for your rear axle which will end up carrying more than its share of the weight and eventually lead to earlier failure.
You could try a few "dry runs"...load your trailer with bale of hay to match the weight of your horse and equipment. If you haul for camping where you need a large water supply - perhaps moving that to the truck bed (make sure it's clear of the GN and attachments) or hauling hay in storage bags in the pickup bed will also help "drop" the pickup a little.
But have a watcher check you out as you watch traffic and go in and out of your driveway and onto and off the paved sections of road. If you have Dexter-type, rubber-torsioned axles, you may be remarkedly amazed at how they "walk" over uneven surfaces ...there are times when 1 or more wheels of the trailer may not be touching the ground!!
I have a very similar situation - but thankfully, the dirt road I live on has little traffic - but I also live at the top of a hill - so I can see quite a ways in either direction and can take up all of the road when exiting or entering my driveway. I don't remember what my clearance is... but there is a string of messages about that somewhere on the board.. and I have to watch with my rear view mirror as I move around my driveway and back yard where I load and unload - hilly, lumpy, bumpy.
Posted 2005-06-01 8:25 AM (#1144 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 18
Location: CA
Your other option would be to put a flatbed on your truck. That way your not blocking your trailer axles or riding uneven. If you do have to block your trailer axles, unless you ride extremely short horses, I wouldn't worry about the horse stepping into the trailer. Look at what a horse does naturally. The trailer we just sold was raised 4" at the axle by the manufacturer - we ordered it that way. We also raised the nose of the trailer 6" and we had at least a foot of clearance between the truck bed and trailer. We pull in the mountains and go to trail heads where the ground is very uneven. We are actually picking up our new trailer this weekend and although we didn't have it raised the manufacturers are now taking the new trucks into account. People wonder why they can't sell older trailers???? Hmmmm, could it be that most people are driving new trucks.
Posted 2005-06-01 8:55 AM (#1145 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 2621
GEOMETRY 101: Measure from the coupler to the effective fulcrum of the trailer's dual axles, say halfway between them. Compare this measurement to the inch or so that you seem to need to extend your coupler to get the desired bed rail clearance. My guess is that the horses won't notice the slight additional incline and the load won't be effectively thrown back onto the rear axle enough to worry about. Try it, test drive without a load, if your rear tires get detectably warmer than the front tires - I'm wrong (again). In this case a) try to get the truck lowered to a previous year's specs using aww_thentik ford parts b) junk the tin bed and buy a fancy 'loooominum flat bed with stake pockets, build or buy low rails for it - then you'll have a nice fahm truck (-:
Posted 2005-06-01 9:08 AM (#1146 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
Thank you for the additional suggestions. A flat bed would take care of the problem for sure. I had the choice of buying a 99 Quad Cab with the fancy aluminum bed already installed......and it was a 6 speed. I test drove the truck. Although it handled nicely........ I just don't want to hassle with the 6 speed when running errands in town. Been there and done that. Also, that particular truck was $3000 higher. I may have to wait awhile before I suggest a new bed to my other half....I can hear the lecture now!
Posted 2005-06-01 10:40 PM (#1147 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 69
Location: Spanaway,Wa
Lifting your trailer isn't a big deal. I just lifted my sooner w/ dexter axles last weekend and it was fairly easy I'm only into it about $50 for 3 1/2in. box tubing. Though I am a mechanic so the labor is free. When I bought the trailer the dealer said they would lift it 4'' for $800 which is still a whole lot cheaper than repairing a crunched bed rail. Our horses aren't huge by any means but it didn't seem to bother them at all getting in or out. If you have any questions I'd be glad to help if I can.
Posted 2005-06-01 10:47 PM (#1148 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
My husband does all of the repairs that he can on our trucks and home etc. Would this be something a guy could handle with some instructions? Not sure if this makes a difference...my trailer is a two horse slant and has 15 inch rims instead of 16 inch rims. I think it makes the trailer sit lower..or at least compared to the 3 horse slant I owned prior to this one...that trailer looked as if it sat higher. I do have dexter axles.
Posted 2005-06-02 8:04 PM (#1149 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 69
Location: Spanaway,Wa
It's all about how confident of a welder he is. The trailer I lifted was a 93' sooner 3hrs slant w' 15'' wheels and 7.00-15 tires and it sat pretty dang low. As for the lift I just bought some scrap pieces of 1/4'' thick 3 1/2'' box tubing, you should only need 4 or 5 feet of steel. Use a cutting torch or grinder to carefully cut the axles loose from the frame (you'd be surprised how little holds them in). Just cut the tubing to the length you need and place the tubing between the frame and the axle. Then just weld the living crap out of everything for safety with a wire-feed or arc welder. If you have all the tooling there it only takes about a half a day. I'm going to upgrade to a larger tire soon since I have more fender clearance and that will raise the trailer even more. Any other questions just let me know.
Posted 2005-06-03 9:48 AM (#1150 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
It sounds like I need to enlist in the help of a good local welder... My hubby does most everything but weld. Too bad I don't live closer to you! I was wondering if raising the trailer in this manner would void the warranty on the axles?
Posted 2005-06-03 10:58 AM (#1151 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 2621
Originally written by trailridngal on 2005-06-03 9:48 AM
It sounds like I need to enlist in the help of a good local welder... My hubby does most everything but weld. Too bad I don't live closer to you! I was wondering if raising the trailer in this manner would void the warranty on the axles?
It probably voids the warranty somewhere - and almost certainly makes the trailer more "tippy" and vulnerable to the effects of cross winds.
I still don't understand why you don't/won't just extend the coupler an inch (or two). The adjustment IS THERE to be used. I don't think you'll be able to see it as an increase in grade, the horses won't notice or care, the issue of overloading of the trailer's rear axle is UNLIKELY. Compared to hacking around with blocking and extended U-bolts, its worth a try, at least in the unloaded condition. TWO BOLTS to loosen and re-tighten, 10 minutes, 15 max. You might want to put a magic marker line at the current position so you can get back to it easily if needed.
Posted 2005-06-03 11:10 AM (#1152 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
I will definitely try raising the coupler first. I was basically looking for info on the suggested amount of clearance between the gooseneck and bed rail. A good rule of thumb so to speak. My trailer dealer was of no help in suggesting anything at all. Thanks.
Posted 2005-06-03 11:46 AM (#1153 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 1701
Location: New Mexico
I have about 6 1/2 inches between my tailgate and trailer. I have only come close once and that was going over some RR tracks with a VERY steep "hump" in the road.
Posted 2005-06-03 12:54 PM (#1154 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 261
Location: CA
Reg is right (again, Gawwwd!). A couple of inches added to the axles (or taken off the truck or coupler) doesn't make much difference in the level of the trailer. I lowered the truck 3" as well as raised the trailer 3", so a total of 6" change and my trailer still doesn't ride absolutely level. When we decided on block size for the trailer, the guy brought his forklift out and kept raising the back of the trailer until it finally was level. In order to make it level I was going to have to add 7 1/2" blocks! Now that is a jump (in or out of a trailer) that my old guys and my daughter's pony would hesitate doing! I don't know the geometry of why you have to raise the trailer's rear so much just to add a couple of inches to the bed clearance, but you do. Reg? I think the lift might need to be larger the longer your trailer is....Nope! I just tried this with a couple of books as truck and trailer and now I think the opposite. The longer your truck is the smaller of a lift to make it ride level. I think. I'll have to ask my husband (engineer) when he gets home and get back to you on this!
Posted 2005-06-03 9:29 PM (#1155 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 69
Location: Spanaway,Wa
A. The more you extend the coupler the more angle you put the trailer at and the greater the load on the rear axle. When I towed my trailer home from the dealer empty before I lifted it the rear tires were noticeably warmer than the front. Also the front axle wanted to lock up even with the brakes turned way down.
B. You should have torsional axles (no leaf springs) so there are no long u-bolts or other hardware to deal with. It's a pretty easy install other than the welding. In fact after seeing how Sooner installed the axles I'm more confident in my assembly than stock.
I really think a combo of extending the coupler a bit and installing a small lift is the best solution. Just an opinion though. The choice is ultimately yours.
Posted 2005-06-04 12:14 PM (#1156 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 119
Location: Tenn/Ala.
Check the truck..... While a 2H GN on any 4x4 is hard to do, early '99s had a lift block in them. Was cancelled in mid-year. In fact, Ford lowered the rest of them free if complaints were received. But I've known some that just removed the blocks, no new shocks or anything else. Try this easy part before changing beds.
As to warranty on Dexter axles, welding on the axle is not acceptable to Dexter. Only bolting. Many do weld, but run the risk of voiding the warranty. Excessive welding melts the rubber Torflex cords.
Posted 2005-06-04 12:45 PM (#1157 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 42
Location: Kansas
There is a block between the springs and axle of the truck ( I was wondering about that) and this particular truck was manufactured in July of 98. I wonder if Ford would still remove them for me? I have a good realtionship with a dealership that does work for me if needed. Thanks for the info, that is a good suggestion.
Posted 2005-06-07 8:04 AM (#1158 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 44
Location: Perkiomenville, PA
Depending on your circumstances, here is a simple fix I undertook that worked GREAT! I moved the springs on the trailer from below the axles to above the axles. I had to have the seat for the springs rewelded, and buy new shackles, but it was well worth it! OK, the horses step up just a bit more, but my truck is free and clear and I ride just perfectly level. 99 Dodge 2500 4X4 and Big Valley Stock Trailer 1992.
Posted 2005-06-07 8:28 AM (#1159 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 57
Not sure how my clearence for 2003 F-250 shortbed will be with my new Hawk. I will be picking it up soon. I have considered pulling the bed off and making it a flat bed. Any thoughts on that? T
Posted 2005-06-07 12:28 PM (#1160 - in reply to #1137) Subject: RE: Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Posts: 41
Location: n/a
Question:
I see a few people talking about lifting the horse trailers. I know you can buy lowering/lifting blocks for the rear leaf springs of a 4x4 truck for all models and sizes. Would this be the same kind of lifting being done on the trailer?
Height between truck rail and Gooseneck
Thanks for the ideas. 
When I bought the trailer the dealer said they would lift it 4'' for $800 which is still a whole lot cheaper than repairing a crunched bed rail. Our horses aren't huge by any means but it didn't seem to bother them at all getting in or out. If you have any questions I'd be glad to help if I can.
(again, Gawwwd!). A couple of inches added to the axles (or taken off the truck or coupler) doesn't make much difference in the level of the trailer. I lowered the truck 3" as well as raised the trailer 3", so a total of 6" change and my trailer still doesn't ride absolutely level. When we decided on block size for the trailer, the guy brought his forklift out and kept raising the back of the trailer until it finally was level. In order to make it level I was going to have to add 7 1/2" blocks!
Now that is a jump (in or out of a trailer) that my old guys and my daughter's pony would hesitate doing! I don't know the geometry of why you have to raise the trailer's rear so much just to add a couple of inches to the bed clearance, but you do. Reg? I think the lift might need to be larger the longer your trailer is....Nope! I just tried this with a couple of books as truck and trailer and now I think the opposite. The longer your truck is the smaller of a lift to make it ride level. I think. I'll have to ask my husband (engineer) when he gets home and get back to you on this!